Aaron Beck and Martin Seligman Discuss Responding to Covid19

In a historic session on April 18, 2020, Martin E. P. Seligman, PhD and Aaron T. Beck, MD welcomed 260 Zoom guests to join their monthly lunch together, a staple in their lives over the past 20 years of their 54-year friendship. Those of us grateful to be joining this intimate “fireside chat” included alumni, students, instructors, and guests affiliated with the Master of Applied Positive Psychology program and Positive Psychology Center at the University of Pennsylvania (both founded by Seligman); and guests from the Beck Institute for Cognitive Behavior Therapy (founded by Beck), including current president Judith S. Beck, PhD (daughter of Aaron Beck). In addition to sharing the genesis of their friendship, Drs. Beck and Seligman revealed their recent insights and “aha” moments that promise to change the course of psychology, and shared actionable strategies for coping with the current COVID-19 pandemic. Throughout their conversation, they modeled the very behaviors they recommend: building meaningful connections, maintaining agility of mind to reassess values and reset priorities, cultivating positive moments, and doing kind acts for others.

In psychology and psychiatry, “standing on the shoulders of giants” is an understatement when applied to Beck, generally considered the founder of both Cognitive Therapy and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Seligman, generally considered the founder of Positive Psychology. Beck and Seligman have a combined 127 years of professional research, practice, and innovation. Still at 98 and 77 they are committed to best practice and new perspectives, remarkably evolving their own theories when most would have long since retired.

Beck’s Clinical Breakthrough: Therapy Takes on a Holistic Approach

“I realized that up until now, up until 10 years ago, I had missed the boat by segregating each approach of psychology into a unit by itself, and I started to mold everything together. I now have a much more humanistic and holistic view of the person, and this is the basis of therapy now.” Dr. Aaron T. Beck, age 98

Dr. Aaron Beck developed cognitive therapy (also known as CBT) in the 1960s. Over 1,000 research studies have shown its effectiveness. CBT helps clients identify and evaluate automatic unhelpful or distorted thoughts that lead to distress or maladaptive behavior that have a deleterious effect on an individual’s mental health and well-being. It works by modifying the individual’s dysfunctional cognitions (thoughts and underlying beliefs) through a wide variety of cognitive and behavioral strategies, as well as techniques from other evidence-based treatments, in the context of a strong, supportive therapeutic relationship.

Ten years ago (at age 88), when supervising his team of psychologists and post-doctoral students working with hospitalized individuals diagnosed with schizophrenia, Beck realized he had “missed the boat” by segmenting psychological approaches. While engaged in meaningful activity, these individuals did not have their usual grandiose delusions. Inviting them to engage in altruistic activities, and helping them derive positive meaning from these experiences, nurtured their positive self-concept and benign beliefs about other people and the world. Gradually, as they became more and more connected to people and more and more engaged in everyday life activities, their delusions started to fade. As a result, Beck and the Beck Institute started to meld various psychology disciplines together using a more integrated approach to therapy, including a strong focus on identifying aspirations and values and creating positive experiences, along with an emphasis on reinforcing the meaning of those experiences.

Beck has been studying psychology his entire life, “not as a student, but as an outsider [as an M.D., Psychiatrist].” He studied experimental, developmental, evolutionary, and other specific segments of psychology, and recently concluded that “each approach is correct - and also wrong.” Each discipline of psychology focuses on just a small segment of the individual, yet the individual is a whole person. Beck now believes psychologists should consider the person as a complete unit. While it’s possible to look at an individual’s behavior and mental state in terms of the biological, psychological or evolutionary antecedents, the challenge is to meld all of the segmented studies of psychology together and look at an individual as a composite of them all.

Reflecting on this fundamental shift, Beck commented: “One of the misconceptions about cognitive therapy is that it tends to be not emotional, not positive, and neglects the interpersonal relationship with a client. I want to go on record as saying all those things are wrong. This idea that cognitive therapy is just a manualized set of techniques is a total misrepresentation of what we do. I think what we do does incorporate much of the positive, and it’s going to incorporate even more as time goes on.”

As a natural extension of this holistic approach to psychology, Beck believes positive psychology needs to merge with what he describes as the “negative psychology” that focuses on identifying and correcting errors in thinking. For these situations of inaccurate or unhelpful thinking, he notes, we have traditionally drawn on the techniques of cognitive psychology and experimental psychology: reason, rationality, and experimentation. In reality though, Beck shares, most thinking is not inaccurate but rational, realistic, and reasonable. It is therefore important to merge positive psychology with traditional disciplines to enable access to tools for both errored and rational thinking during therapy - to address the whole person, not just the dysfunctional thinking.

The Beck Institute has shifted its treatment of clients based on Beck’s insights, and now uses a “recovery-oriented cognitive therapy” approach, especially for outpatient clients who are much higher functioning than hospitalized patients. Drs. Paul Grant and Ellen Inverso head the Center for Recovery-Oriented Cognitive Therapy (CT-R) at the Beck Institute. They, along with Dr. Aaron Beck and colleagues, developed this future-focused, positive, and value-based approach. More on this later, when Dr. Judith Beck models CT-R as a tool to cope with COVID-19.

Seligman’s Revelation: Embrace the “Smiley Face”

“I have something new to say. This is the first time I’ve ever endorsed the smiley face.” Dr. Martin E. P. Seligman, age 77

Realizing psychology’s post WWII emphasis on deficits and mental illness, Seligman boldly advocated that psychology should be just as focused on what goes right with us as it is with what goes wrong. Seligman in his 1998 American Psychological Association (APA) Presidential Address proposed a positive psychology or a “new science of human strengths”. Positive psychology is the scientific study of well-being and human flourishing. It explores both theory and application of our human capacity to thrive and invites us to proactively cultivate positive traits, experiences, and institutions.

Seligman has always eschewed the clichéd smiley face as a mistaken identity of positive psychology. The field is sometimes viewed as happy-ology at the expense of realism, which ignores the underlying science that defines positive psychology at its core and misses its emphasis on resilience, strengths, PERMA (positive emotion, engagement, relationships, meaning, achievement), research, and growth. Seligman’s position on the symbolic smiley face is shifting: “Sitting at home for six weeks with four kids, my wife, and four dogs, and listening to moments of bitching and moaning versus moments of positivity, has me thinking.” He now believes embracing the “smiley face” is perhaps the most impactful strategy for building well-being, optimism, and possibly even immunity during this crisis.

Seligman acknowledges how difficult it is during times of crisis to spontaneously generate positive thoughts, and yet research suggests that cultivating positive emotions may help prevent viral infections, and build good vagal tone, which activates the parasympathetic nervous system, dampening anxiety, depression, and anger. Further, Seligman points out that positive emotions can lead to more zest, help us get unstuck, “and are fun!” He reminds us that Dr. Barbara Fredrickson’s research on positivity suggests that even watching a burst of positive films can block or shorten negative ruminations.

COVID-19 Coping Strategies

So, what do Beck and Seligman recommend we do to cultivate our own authentic smiley face in this unprecedented time, where “bitching and moaning” can often feel like the more appropriate response? And what else can we do to tame the anxiety and fear that many of us are experiencing as the crisis continues its course?

Assess Values and Reset Priorities
Beck challenges us to turn this adversity into an opportunity. He suggests that in our hyper-achievement focused world, the pandemic offers an unusual opportunity for us to assess and reset our priorities, and to consider the ideal allocation of our time based on those priorities. He says resetting priorities ignites a positive feeling, helps us to find our smiley face, and then creates an enduring happy mood, beyond the smiley face, when we invest in our new, hopefully more values-aligned, priorities. Most people, he notes, will prioritize family, being a good role model, and doing good things for the community and for other people - over professional obsessions. As a practical step, Beck recommends making a pie chart representing our ideal allocation of time and priorities - and then adjusting our life going forward to invest in those priorities.

Practice Sociality and Kindness
Both Seligman and Beck point to sociality, or engaging in meaningful social connection, “do-gooding,” and kindness as antidotes to negative thinking, pessimism, and hopelessness. Dr. Judith Beck emphasizes this point by sharing the power of consciously creating opportunities for meaningful social connection - especially during times of crisis. Her son with special needs lives alone, and was feeling isolated during quarantine. Harnessing the power of sociality, Dr. J. Beck emailed many relatives, including extended family, and asked them to schedule FaceTime calls with her son. Her son’s positive anticipation of these calls has kept his anxiety and loneliness at bay.

Seligman agrees that sociality and kindness are key ingredients to finding our smiley faces. Sociality helps tame fear and anxiety, especially during this pandemic. “I have a gallery view of more than 200 of you, and so I ask myself the question, ‘Is this heaven’? I’m looking at so many people that I love and I like; and the answer is ... no … it’s Zoom,” he laughed. “But it’s very close to sociality for me.”

Maximize Positive Moments
Seligman also emphasizes the importance of maximizing positive moments, as difficult as they may be to generate. Strategies Seligman is using in his own life to lift mood? A new puppy! Gratitude. Bombarding himself with good news. Weekly Zoom sessions and webinars with his beloved MAPP community. Suggestions provided by the MAPP community include subscribing to Some Good News, John Krasinski’s new YouTube channel highlighting positive news stories from around the world!

Dr. Judith Beck emphasizes how important it is for everybody, every day, to train themselves to pay attention to the small positive moments throughout the day. “Our natural tendency is toward the negative, so it takes a concerted effort to wear a different set of glasses,” she reminded us. So, in order to have positive moments, we have to think about them and see them, and remember them. Dr. Judith Beck uses a positive diary App to take pictures and keep track of positive moments that she has every day. “Now I have this photographic record that I can go back to to re-experience the positive moments when things don’t feel positive.”

Chase the Meaning vs. the Outcome
Dr. Aaron Beck emphasizes that the meaning of good things happening to us is as important, if not more important than the good thing itself. Dr. Beck underscores this with an example from an inpatient with whom the Beck Institute CT-R team worked while he was preparing to re-enter his life. The therapist digs for the meaning underlying the patient’s aspiration, and helps the patient determine how to fulfill that meaning. We can all do this for ourselves when considering our own goals and aspirations, both during and after the pandemic. For example:

Therapist: “What would you like to have in your life when you get out of the hospital and rejoin your community - what are your aspirations?”
Patient: “To be a great playwright.”
Therapist: “What’s good about being a good playwright?”
The patient listed a dozen things that were meaningful about being a great playwright (entertain people, be respected, creative, etc.).
Therapist differentiated the meanings from the outcome and asked, “In the meantime, what could you do to achieve these things that are so meaningful to you?”
Patient: “I suppose I could be a stagehand.” He became one, and felt worthwhile because he was doing something that fulfilled those same needs for meaning that he saw in being a playwright (entertained people, felt respected, creative outlet).

Utilize a Recovery-Oriented Cognitive Therapy Approach to Deal with Uncertainty
Dr. Judith Beck acknowledges how hard it is to live with uncertainty, but reminds us that realistically, uncertainty exists for all of us. We can be bombarded by thoughts over and over again and it can be challenging to think beyond: “How can I keep myself safe, keep my family safe right now?” She suggests we also think about the next few months. When people use their imagination, their emotional level sensor is turned on. Here are a few recovery-oriented positive therapy tools she is using with clients that we may all find useful:

Ask yourself, “What’s really important to me? What are my highest values? What can I do today in the service of these values?”

Imagine a day, 5 years into the future (e.g., a vaccine has been developed 4 years previously; there are no more pandemics - we’ve learned from this one; things have returned to some “new normal” for the past 3 ½ years). Ask yourself, “Where would I like to imagine that I wake up? Is it in the same or a different city? Who is in my home with me? How do I want to feel when I wake up? What do I want to be thinking? What would I do first, when I get out of bed? What would I like to be doing next? What next?” Imagine your day from the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep.

When painting this realistic picture of what life might be like 5 years from now, ask questions that embody what you value. For example, “Music is important in my life - how could I include music in my life 5 years from now?” “I value helping others - what could I inject into my day to help others?”

The Beck Institute is currently hosting a free, weekly Recovery-Oriented Cognitive Therapy webinar series called Flourishing in a Time of Prescribed Social Distancing.

Forging a Forever Friendship

Beck opened the fireside chat recalling with fondness how he first met Seligman, 54 years ago. Beck had orchestrated an invitation to a gathering at the home of Dr. Joseph Wolpe, a pioneer in behavioral psychology. Beck wanted to find out as much as he could about behavioral psychology. His application to the New York Psychoanalytic Society and Institute (NYPSI) had been turned down after having questioned the validity of Freud’s analysis techniques. He was told by NYPSI that anyone who had to do research on psychoanalysis to prove it was valid, needed more psychoanalysis. That rejection pushed him, a psychiatrist, toward psychology. Beck presented his research to Wolpe, suggesting a correlation between depression and masochistic dreams. He recalled a young, curly haired psychology graduate student, Martin Seligman, approached him after his presentation to say he believed Beck’s research to be valid. Seligman had noticed the same correlation in his research with his clinical patients. Since that first meeting, Beck has kept close track of Seligman and his work. A few years later, Beck recruited Seligman to return to Penn as an Associate Professor in the Department of Psychiatry. Seligman later moved into the Department of Psychology, where he eventually co-founded positive psychology.

Reminiscing with Beck on that first meeting, Seligman reflected, “that was 54 years ago. Tim [Dr. Beck’s nickname] was my teacher then, and he’s my teacher now.”

With Gratitude - Thank you, Dr. Aaron Beck and Dr. Martin Seligman!

We will be forever grateful to Dr. Aaron Beck and Dr. Martin Seligman for sharing this historic, intimate and insightful conversation with our community. They demonstrate firsthand the power of friendship, the respect for science and research, and the agility of mind to question and evolve their own beliefs over a lifetime. They challenge themselves, each other, and the field of psychology itself to constantly reexamine values, purpose, and priorities. They express unity in evolving psychology and therapy toward a focus on the well-being of the whole person, not just the broken parts. They offer insightful and evidence-based strategies for coping in our current pandemic crisis, future crises, and the big and small day-to-day stresses that we all encounter. Most of all, Marty (Dr. Seligman) and Tim (Dr. Beck) demonstrate for us friendship, admiration, humility, vulnerability, humor - and of course, pure brilliance. We, the 260 on-lookers, and the field of psychology, will remain forever indebted to them for their contributions individually and together, and for their determination to continue pushing the frontier.

Additional Resources

Watch the full fireside chat.

The MAPP Alumni Association has presented a series of 30-minute webinars on Strategies to Thrive in Uncertain Times. All past webinars are accessible by video recording.

The Beck Institute has created a COVID-19 resource bank and is continuing to offer certification and training in CBT through online courses, workshops, supervision and trainings for organizations.

Jill Gribb Bell is an executive coach and consultant. She has over 30-years’ experience working with Fortune 100 and Inc. 500 companies. Jill earned her BSE in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering from Princeton University, an MBA from Harvard Business School, and a MAPP (Masters of Applied Positive Psychology) from University of Pennsylvania. She is an IOC (Institute of Coaching of Harvard Medical School) certified executive coach. Follow Jill on LinkedIn.

Dana Fulwiler is a well-being educator and consultant. She earned her Master of Applied Positive Psychology (MAPP) from the University of Pennsylvania, and MEd and BEd from the University of Saskatchewan. Dana has experience in public education, non-profit, and post-secondary as a psychology teacher, projects coordinator for positive mental health and teacher well-being, Assistant Instructor in UPenn’s MAPP program, and Sessional Instructor in the University of Calgary’s BEd program. Connect with Dana on Twitter, LinkedIn, or Instagram.