A New Frontier in Positive Sexuality: A Conversation with Vera Ludwig, PhD

Photo by Kevin monko

This fall, we’re at the brink of a new frontier in positive sexuality. So, to wrap this issue and a wonderful year of work alongside positive psychology experts, practitioners, and contributors across disciplines and from around the globe, we’re pleased to share excerpts from our conversation with another trailblazer. Vera Ludwig, PhD. is the new Director of the Human Sexuality and Well-Being Project at the University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center. In this interview, she shared her own perspective about positive sexuality and offered an early glimpse into a project that promises to continue to move the field forward.

We wish you a beautiful end to 2024 and hope you enjoy.

MAPP Magazine (MM): To begin, will you please share a bit about yourself, your story, and its intersection with positive psychology?

Vera Ludwig (VL): Sure. Well, I started out studying psychobiology in Amsterdam, did a Master’s in human cognitive neuropsychology, then my PhD in psychology, with a focus on neuroscience. I think I was always driven by a curiosity to understand this overlap between biology and psychology. That was one of the main motivations, and the other was to understand how we can help to improve people's well-being—to use science to make a difference in the world and to help people live better lives.

So, when I discovered positive psychology toward the end of my PhD, I was like wow, this is really something—to use science to understand what makes life worth living and fulfilling. I really wanted to use the skills that I had acquired in this domain. So, I had my first visit to the Positive Psychology Center (PPC), talked to the people there, and tried to figure out what my niche would be.

I did a lot of research on other topics related to well-being, so a lot of my previous work is on self-regulation and decision making—specifically also their overlap with mindfulness. So, looking at how we can regulate our behavior and emotions. How can we make decisions that are good in the long-term while also being present in the moment? How can we be intrinsically motivated rather than extrinsically driven? That was one big interest I had, and the second one, which I’ve focused on in recent years, is relationships in general. This includes all sorts of relationships—between strangers, in the workplace, with friends. And I've been looking at what interventions we can use to improve human connections as one of the most fundamental things that determine people's well-being and health. For example, I have been studying meditation methods that two people do together in order to connect with each other. Then, I started to move more into the domain of sexuality, which I've been interested in for many, many years.

Around 2016 or 2017, I noticed for the first time that sexuality was sort of ignored or not really talked about very much in positive psychology, and that really came as a surprise to me. This is such an important domain of life for so many people, and it certainly predicts well-being. So, why are we not talking about it? Why is no one looking at it?

I worked at Brown University for a while, and at the beginning of 2020, I started my job at the University of Pennsylvania (working mostly with the Wharton Neuroscience Initiative, and later, with the PPC).

Back in 2018, after I gave a talk on positive sexuality at the PPC, Suzie Pawelski introduced me to Ari Lewis. I then supervised his amazing capstone project, which detailed what it means to apply Marty’s theory of well-being to the domain of sexuality and in which he developed an initial questionnaire to measure sexual well-being (As most of your readers will know, PERMA is the famous model by Martin Seligman proposing five components of a fulfilling life: Positive Emotions, Engagement, Relationships, Meaning, and Accomplishments). So, that's how that started, and that’s where my focus is mostly going to be in the coming years.

I just started my new position as Director of the Human Sexuality and Well-Being Project at the PPC, where I’ll direct a 5-year project on sexual well-being.

MM: Before we delve into the project, can you please share with us, what is positive sexuality?

Yeah, very good question.

So I think first, it's important to clarify that the term is not supposed to imply that sexuality is always positive. There are so many instances where it's not at all positive. People have all kinds of difficult and problematic traumatic experiences when it comes to sexuality, and that absolutely needs to be acknowledged and part of this conversation. It's just that previous research has mostly looked at these negative factors as well as at physiological functioning. The positive part has often just been sort of ignored.

Our argument is that we should also start to look at things that make sexuality positive. So, what are factors that are beneficial? That foster resilience or a good relationship with your own sexuality? That can mean different things for different people, right? So, maybe for one person it means having a lot of sex. For another person, it might mean I never have sex, or I only have sex when I am married. It depends on the person, and I think it has to do with self-acceptance and with many different factors.

Also, I think it’s important to clarify that sexuality can mean so many different things, and there’s not just the standard definition of what most people think of when they think of having sex, like vaginal intercourse, for example. But you know, it could be all sorts of beautiful interactions that you have with a partner or even that people have on their own. It’s also how we relate to our own bodies, to our own sexual functions, even if we never have sex. Right? What's our narrative about our own sexuality and our identity?

MM: Where does positive sexuality fit in existing models of well-being?

VL: Right. Well, there are many ways in which you could relate previous theories of well-being to the domain of sexuality. And that's exactly what Ari did in his capstone. Pioneers like Brianna Booth wrote her dissertation on sexual well-being. And Kate Hefferon included a whole chapter about positive sexuality in her book about Positive Psychology and the Body.

At first sight, it might seem that positive sexuality fits into the domain of relationships. Like in the PERMA model, for example. But I would argue that's not necessarily the case, because single people also have sexuality within their own bodies. And so, I think all the dimensions of the prominent well-being models can be applied. You could think of positive emotion, meaning, spirituality—even skills, competencies, and other dimensions of the PERMA model. But also, other models like Ryff’s model, which include self-acceptance and some additional components, can also be easily applied to this domain. There’s also self-determination theory, for example—autonomy, competence, relatedness—which all could be applied to the domain of sexuality.

This is something we're trying to do with this project—to sort through all these existing theories and relate them to the new domain. You could see sexuality as a vehicle to increase any of those dimensions. Or you could apply them to sexuality—sexual connection, sexual meaning.

MM: You alluded to this—the idea that sexuality is broad, and there’s a lot that it encompasses. We’re curious about intimacy but are unsure if you’ve explored this domain in the work you’ve already done or if this is a concept you’ll be exploring in your coming work. In any case, what are the conditions that enhance intimacy in relationships? And then, as you see it, how is intimacy distinct from sex and sexuality?

VL: Yeah that’s interesting. A lot of my work now has focused on this concept of intimacy—so, also in non-romantic, non-sexual relationships. I've done some work, for example, on the effects of eye gazing. We find that smiles and heart rates tend to synchronize when you eye gaze. That might happen in a sexual context too. I think intimacy is most likely an important aspect of sexuality for many people. But also, people may differ in what they value most. Intimacy can definitely be non-sexual. They sort of overlap, I would say.

MM: Thank you for that. Can you share another example of a positive-sexuality intervention or application known to foster love, intimacy or sexual well-being?

VL: Sure, there's some work from others—like Lori Brotto, for example—who has her work on sexual mindfulness. She has specific mindfulness interventions that can help people feel better into their bodies and develop their sexual enjoyment.

What I'm hoping to investigate in the future are interactive exercises, things like eye gazing, meditative practices that help people share with each other their vulnerabilities around the sexual domain. I think this is one of the main issues even couples have. They often don't dare to talk with each other about what they really like, what they don't like, what their boundaries are, what they feel insecure about. So, I think interventions that encourage people to share with each other and listen in non-judgmental ways could be very beneficial. That research is still upcoming. And then, I think a lot of the positive psychology interventions could also be applied to the domain of sexuality.

In our upcoming project, we hope to develop a questionnaire that can also be used as a form of intervention. This questionnaire will be able to identify the dimensions where people already feel fulfilled and where they might not. And then, they may also rate how important they find the different dimensions, which is a feature of the questionnaire that Ari Lewis proposed. . . A couple could work through these questionnaires together, for example.

MM: This is wonderful. You’ve shared a bit about the upcoming project and the funding you and your team were awarded. Congratulations! We wanted to give space for you to share more about that work and what you’ll be investigating. Going into it, what are your hunches? What are your questions? What are you hoping to explore?

VL: Right, yes. It's great news that we got this funding, and that the importance of sexual well-being is being recognized. This will be helpful to address all the negative aspects that we've mentioned earlier and to recognize sexuality as an important aspect for well-being and health. The goal of this project is to develop a comprehensive model of sexual well-being. To look into individual differences, and also to develop a questionnaire with a detailed scale that can measure all the different dimensions. Such a scale doesn't really exist in that form yet. There are actually many scales, of course, looking at sexual functioning or the absence of negative factors. But there’s not that much yet on these more positive aspects.

I do want to mention Kirstin Mitchell, who has published a great model of sexual well-being, which we’ll expand on further with this project. She's part of this collaboration as well.

We'll start with the exploration phase. The first one or two years are devoted to conducting interviews, focus groups, surveys, looking at books and articles that are already published. Any previous work, any work from positive psychology and well-being theory. And we’ll analyze the most commonly used adjectives of the English language to see whether there are any dimensions hidden there that we're not thinking about. We’ll try to find as many dimensions that potentially could be important to people.

In the second stage, we will narrow that down, and we will have systematic surveys to figure out which of these dimensions really do matter to people. Do we already see big differences there between groups? Gender differences, for example. Afterwards, we will select these categories based on predefined criteria, and then start building items and developing a questionnaire, which is a similar procedure that Jer Clifton used for his primals project. He developed a super systematic approach to come up with a primal world belief scale. He's also on board with this project and will consult on this process.

And then hopefully, we'll end up with a really useful scale and model with various applications in public health. We think this project will be able to improve not only relationship or marital problems, but also contribute to addressing the current mental health crisis. Sexual problems are linked with various issues including depression, anxiety, divorces, and even poor physical health. Stigmatization of certain groups is another issue. We also believe the project will contribute to sexual violence prevention, the improvement of sexual health behaviors (such as getting tested for STIs) and reduction of sexual risk-taking. That is because it will enhance our understanding of how sexuality affects people’s lives and well-being, and because it will enable people to have more constructive conversations around sexuality.

MM: You mentioned Kirstin Mitchell and Jer Clifton. Are there others you'll be working with on the project?

VL: Oh yeah, I should mention all of them: Ethan Coston from Virginia Commonwealth University, who is an expert on diversity and qualitative data analysis. Debby Herbenick, who is a world-renowned sexuality researcher. Scott Barry Kaufman is involved as well, with his expertise on well-being more generally, and we have Damien Crone who is a specialist in data analysis. Ari Lewis is also a key person in our team, given this, in a way, is an extension of his Capstone project. And then Marlene Werner plays a role. She is a specialist on pleasure, based in the Netherlands.

MM: It sounds like you’ve assembled a power team!

VL: Yeah, I'm so in awe of how this team came together. I look at the team, and I’m like wow, that’s incredible. We have all the experts.

MM: Excellent. Congratulations!

VL: Oh, also I should mention James and Suzie Pawelski, who have given me advice. And James helps me guide the development of this as well.

MM: This project sounds really exciting. Is there anything else you’re researching, writing, learning, and sharing that you're also excited about?

VL: This is my main focus. Currently, I'm finalizing some publications in the domain of meditation—meditative intervention, which will also influence the research on sexuality. Those are meditations that two people do together rather than alone. It’s something that could potentially be applied to the sexuality domain, as I mentioned before. I’m excited about this as well, because I think these interventions really help people see each other in a very authentic and genuine way… I think that is so important for sexuality as well. That we see each other as human beings and not just objects that we swipe to the left or to the right. I think this will influence my work.

MM: We’ll look forward to following your work.

VL: Thank you so much.

MM: Is there anything more you’d like to share or discuss? Anything else you would have liked us to ask you about?

Well, maybe one thing that is still on my mind is the definition of positive sexuality. I really think this is about looking at how we can integrate our sexuality holistically into our lives. There are so many things that are part of our well-being, and sexuality is not the only thing. But we want to make sure it comes out of the shadows. Away from shame, taboo, stigma—so that it can just be a normal part of models of well-being. It's just one of the many aspects that we should take into account. We owe it to people to pay attention to it.

And also, we hope to make some resources available soon for people to start to learn about this. There will probably be a website soon. And there might be opportunities to get involved—internships and assistants.

MM: Great. How can our readers reach you and learn more about your work?

VL: I have my own website, and there is a website on positive-sexuality.com, however it's not currently online. You can also follow me on YouTube and LinkedIn.

MM: OK, cool. It's wonderful to speak with you, Vera. Thank you.

VL: Yeah, this has been really fun! Thank you.

About the expert | Vera Ludwig, Ph.D., is the Director of the Human Sexuality and Well-Being Project at the Positive Psychology Center, University of Pennsylvania. As a recipient of the Stephen I. Katz Early Stage Investigator Grant, she leads a 5-year R01 project on sexual well-being. With expertise in biological psychology, neuroscience, and positive psychology, as well as methods from Eastern wisdom traditions such as meditation, she brings an interdisciplinary approach to her work.

Dr. Ludwig holds a Ph.D. in Psychology from Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin, a BSc in Psychobiology from the University of Amsterdam, and an MSc in Human Cognitive Neuropsychology from the University of Edinburgh. She conducted post-doctoral research in Berlin and at Brown University before joining the University of Pennsylvania as a Research Associate and later Senior Research Investigator. Widely published and well-cited in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, her research has focused on decision-making, human connection, and positive sexuality, with the overall aim of fostering well-being.